Figured I would start a topic, Im not exactly a fan of either candidate to be honest but I was wondering for those that are considering to vote for Romney. Does his rather "unique" Mormon faith make you second guess voting for him? For those of you not familiar with certain Mormon beliefs im speaking about Jesus coming to America after the resurrection, "magic underwear", dinosaur fossils being parts of extinct creatures from other planets, god being 6'2'' and living next to a star named kolob, Native Americans being a lost tribe of Israel, upon death Mormons can become their own gods etc.etc.
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19 replies on this topic
Jordan Dean - 10/7/12 @ 1:15 PM
I don't care what religion a man is labeled, I can about that man's actions. Romney seemed like a great governor while in office and he did not enact any legislation having to do with magic underwear, dinosaur fossils or other planets. Since his personal beliefs, whatever they may be, are separate from his governing beliefs, I really don't care what he believes. I would also like to point out that Obama says he is a Christian but all of his actions oppose this. Looking at Obama from a religious point of view, I would say he is either atheist or even Muslim as he's visited over 14 mosques in other nations and never one church overseas while in office. I don't think we should judge a politician by their labeled religion but instead by their legislative actions, leadership, and record.
Ryan - 10/7/12 @ 4:49 PM
I actually agree with you Jordan (possible sign of the apocalypse)that people should be judged on their actions but as we see all to often in politics religion does seem to play a distinct role. Knowing this im just curious how Romneys particular religion would influence actions as a president(hopefully not at all).
Jordan Dean - 10/7/12 @ 9:05 PM
His religion has not influenced his actions as a governor or CEO of an extremely large corporation(s) so I don't see that it would spontaneously influence him if he becomes president.
Sarah32 - 10/8/12 @ 11:20 PM
Some may disagree, but I don't see how a person's religious views COULD NOT effect his policies. I used to be of the position that a person's religious background held little to no influence on their political platform, but I would now disagree with my former self. Will Romney's religious background influence his policies? I believe so. A person's worldview does matter. Will he be trying to convert everyone to Joseph Smith's teachings? Probably not.;)
Aside from him being influenced by his belief system, I'll still vote for him. Will I enthusiastically support him? No. But that has nothing to do with the fact that he is Mormon. It has to do with the fact that he seems to be a corrupt politician just as many of the political figures are.
Ryan - 10/9/12 @ 7:10 AM
Yeah it is unfortunate that most of our politicians seem to have forgotten about their constituents once they are elected into office. I do always find it amusing when they do try to take the moral high ground against each other, in campaign ads or debates.
Sarah32 - 10/9/12 @ 5:11 PM
I believe their concern really isn't about the constituents; that's the sad state of things, Ryan. I believe their aim is to elevate themselves and gain more power. I cannot think of the last time we had a truly good president. Though I know the term "good" can be subjective, I'm meaning someone who is more altruistic in their actions, and truly looks at the job as a public position to serve- not take.
CraigSnedeker - 10/10/12 @ 7:34 AM
// I cannot think of the last time we had a truly good president. //
I agree ^
I'm really hoping Ron Paul can get elected. I truly believe he would be one of those "truly good" presidents.
Something about the way Romney acts, and some of his policies, bother me.
Jordan Dean - 10/10/12 @ 7:19 PM
@Sarah - I believe your religion will effect your policy, to an extent. What would be the policy differences between a Mormon, Christian, Catholic, Methodist, or whatever? They all believe in the same basic values and when it comes to policy, I don't think they're distinguishable. Even a Buddhist or other peaceful non-Biblical religions wouldn't really have a major difference when it comes to policy.
@Craig - As someone in our military, Ron Paul is a nightmare. The thought of his foreign policy becoming the United States' foreign policy would literally force me to leave the country. His ideas of "peace and love" are great for children but entirely unrealistic and inevitably dangerous to the lives of our troops and even our citizens.
Codify - 10/11/12 @ 10:52 PM
Came across the other day, I love the way Ravi puts this and couldn't agree more.
http://salvationbygrace.net/2009/05/03/ravi-zacharias-on-mitt-romney/
Sarah32 - 10/12/12 @ 1:15 PM
To answer your question, Jordan, I would have to answer another unasked question within your question. Is a Morman different than a Christian? Is there a difference between the different sects of religion? Yes, there has to be. There are even differences between two Christians sitting side by side together on the same pew at the same church!
One Christian may see only the wrath of God, the other, only the love. Every person comes to the table with their own presuppositions and bias. If for say, the man who only believes in a loving God becomes a political leader- wouldn't you say that would effect his stance on foreign policy? Wouldn't he be more apt to surrender our possession of nukes? If on the other hand, the man sitting next to him in the pew favored a view of a God of justice alone, he would probably be more prone to retaliate if another country struck an ally of America. He would see war as an act of obedience.
The point I'm trying to make is this- worldview does matter. If we are to worship God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength- wouldn't God influence our minds? And don't our minds (and thoughts comprising them) influence our decisions?
I'll add another caveat: there has been a divide in the church amongst the conservative Christians and the liberal Christians. Many liberal Christians see the interpretation of God's Words as mere symbolism, and they take the Bible to mean what they want it to be interpreted as. Gone are the verses admonishing the practice of homosexuality, and in its place is a cheap form of grace and a loose interpretation of Scripture that fits their own agenda. They see David and Jonathan in the Bible as homosexuals, and Ruth and Naomi as another example of a practicing homosexual relationship. In this form of religion and view of God & Scripture, wouldn't you think this would impact the Defense of Marriage Act? Would an individual from this presupposition see the family system as the same as I would (a conservative Christian)? The answer? No. We would have totally different platforms and a totally different set of action plans.
Jordan Dean - 10/12/12 @ 10:15 PM
@Sarah - I agree with you but let me make my stance more clear. I believe all branches of Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, Mormonism, etc have a fundamental believe to love one another, help others, and do good. When it comes to homosexuality, the answer in the Bible is clear. If you don't follow the Bible's answer, you are not a true follower of the Bible regardless of what religion you categorize yourself under. When it comes to a God of wrath, love, justice, etc., the Bible makes it clear that all these are characteristics of God. To choose to only follow one characteristic of God and not others is to deny God which does not make you a follower of any Bible-based religion.
Also, careful how you throw around liberal and conservatives. I consider myself both conservative and liberal. Liberal does not mean to support homosexuality. The ideology of liberalism in the U.S. is based off of equality and freedom which I'm sure you believe in as well. FDR pretty much launched the liberal movement with the New Deal which helped so many people in such a hard time. I truly believe in helping others and providing opportunity. ---but this can get lengthy so I'll stop changing the subject. Would be an interest topic to post though ;)
Japlace - 10/19/12 @ 12:48 PM
"Does his rather 'unique' Mormon faith make you second guess voting for him?" - Original Topic
- Yes, absolutely it does. But I am still voting for him. Onthe flip side, Obama's "unique" Muslim faith should make people second guess before voting for him.
"I'm really hoping Ron Paul can get elected. I truly believe he would be one of those "truly good" presidents." - Craig
- Ron Paul would be a nightmare lol. He HATES Israel.
Sarah32 - 10/22/12 @ 9:29 PM
@Jordan- Just to clarify- I wasn't using the term "liberal" to describe someone's political bent. I was using the term "liberal" to connote to the religious persuasions of an individual. A liberal Christian (in terms of their religion) can still be a conservative in their view of politics. Although there has been some contention on what a "liberal Christian" is, I can say it usually resembles someone who is more loose on their interpretation of Scripture. I am with you on giving someone a raised eyebrow when it comes to an individual claiming they're a Christian, yet, supporting a practice which God says He is against. However, I also know Christians can be deceived. First John says that even the elect will be deceived. I won't sit on this part of the topic too long. I only wanted to make the point that even within the Christian realm, there can be a variance of thought. There can be a Christian who leans more to the love of God and another to the wrath of God. That doesn't mean they're not Christians; it simply means they may still be in the sanctification process.
From what you have said Jordan, a Mormon, a Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, and any peaceful religious person has the same basic core values, and thus, a fairly congruent political platform. But what about Buddhism which doesn't define homosexuality as wrong? What about the certain sects of Mormonism which adhere to the belief that marrying more than one woman is completely acceptable? Or even the more peaceful Muslims that use the Koran as their compass, which again, states that marrying several wives is fine? Don't you think this worldview would change how a leader would pass certain laws?
Worldview aside, in the Old Testament, we see that the Israelites thrived when a godly leader was instituted; they likewise floundered and fell into more corruption when the leader was not godly. Would the Israelites still have thrived if they had a leader who was involved in a peaceful polytheistic religion, yet denied the God of the people- Jehovah? Was there a difference in the nation when they had a leader who communed with the true God?
Personally, I would rather have a leader with a similar worldview as me, and I'm sure an atheist would rather have a leader with an atheistic worldview, and a Muslim with a leader who adheres to the Hadith. I don't blame these people groups for wanting a leader with their same bias, because if you have a similar bias, the laws that you would personally veto or approve would be more likely to be enacted. It just makes sense.
Jordan Dean - 10/22/12 @ 9:40 PM
@Sarah - The leader of the Israelites had entirely different authorities than our president so that is not a good comparison. I honestly think there a much more important things in this country than the debate on homosexuality and the idea of having more than one wife isn't even possible in modern America because so many are apposed to it so I don't worry about that either.
A president's job is reasoning with Congress, conducting foreign policy, and running the bureaucracy. These 3 things are all I really care about when it comes to who I vote for. All those religions I listed would have similar views on these subjects so long as you don't have an extreme of any of the religions (ie. "wrath of God" Christian, jihad Muslim, pot-head Buddhist.
Of course we would feel more comfortable with a leader that shares our specific values but even if we got one, it doesn't mean that any of our values would be implemented into formal policy. The president is not a dictator or supreme leader, he is the head of the executive branch which is checked and balanced by the legislative branch, judicial branch and the media. The president is probably the most powerful person in our government but his voice is not the law therefore his extremely specific beliefs will also be checked and balanced by other governmental powers.
Sarah32 - 10/22/12 @ 9:42 PM
@Japlace- I was just wondering where you got the notion that Ron Paul hates Israel. I have heard that he would cut foreign aid to Israel if he became president, but that was his plan for all countries- not just Israel.
This was his quote in the Republican debate, “To me, foreign aid is taking money from poor people in this country and giving it to rich people in poor countries, and it becomes weapons of war." I'm not sure this is "hate;" it may just be a difference of opinion from what some Israeli supporters feel in the U.S. I think we have to remember that he is a Libertarian, and as such, he believes in a country's sovereignty more than a traditional Republican or Democrat. In short, his view is that each country should be self-reliant.
Jordan Dean - 10/23/12 @ 4:17 AM
@Sarah+Japlace - Ron Paul's ideas sound good but there's a reason they haven't been put into practice by anyone. If the U.S. cut all foreign aid, millions of people would start dying all around the world. We give so much food, clothing, medical assistance and housing to other countries that desperately need it much more than we do. In America, poor means you can't afford to go shop at the mall or it means you're on food stamps and welfare. In REAL poor countries, poor means you probably won't eat anything tonight and since you couldn't find food the last 4 nights, you'll probably die within the week from either starvation or the war lords might come through town and shoot you dead or you rapidly spreading disease may kill you. We need to provide foreign aid. It is a moral obligation.
And Ron Paul also said he wouldn't do anything about Iran's nuclear program. That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard and every single politician in America agrees. If we allow Iran to obtain long range nuclear capability, they will attack us, Israel, U.K., Germany, etc. In the Iranian constitution, it specifically says "The United States is the great Satan". Iran is our enemy, period. We cannot and will not let our enemy have the power to wipe out millions of people with the push of a button.
Sarah32 - 10/25/12 @ 9:33 AM
@Jordan- I'm not advocating for Ron Paul; I just wanted to clarify his position on Israel. Personally, there are a lot of policies I don't like that America has done, BUT immediately cutting out certain programs and long established implementations has some serious repercussions. You can't do a complete 180 over night. The results would be disastrous. I would love to return to our roots and re-establish many of America's original policies, but again, doing so quickly would leave many worse off instead of better.
As far as the comparison with the Old Testament's Israel and current day America, yes, the governing systems are different between the kings and the now diplomatic society we have, nevertheless, both are still a leadership position over a nation. Yes, the president is kept in line with the checks and balances, but he still is able to enact executive orders, which is very 'king like' in many ways. The judges in the Old Testament were very different than the kings of the Old Testament, yet, God still wanted godly leaders to be established at both periods of time. Leadership can infect or effect positively. I really believe that that can be said about not just the president, but congress and the senate (etc.) as well. With that said, I'm not going to pout in the corner and refuse to vote because there isn't a legitimate Christian running for office. I feel like my duty is to look at the Bible as my compass, and see if there is a candidate which has policies that resemble what I see in Scripture. I'm sure other people with different worldviews do the same-- they just have a different compass.
Jordan Dean - 10/25/12 @ 11:04 AM
I am a proud Christian but when it comes to politics and voting, I don't use the Bible as my compass. I look at policies and see what would help the people of our country and other countries best. For instance, I'm voting for Romney because I support his economic and foreign policies over Obama's. If Obama was a real Christian who was super pro-life, against homosexuality, and fought for Christian rights yet held his same economic and foreign policies, I'd still vote Romney, even if Romney was a Muslim! There are a ton of Bible-believing Senators and Representatives that I would never vote for and would gladly have an atheist or Muslim or Buddhist over.
For me, it comes down to that person's policies and record. Of course it would be great to have a president with great policies, a positive record and a Christian faith, but the Christian faith is a personal preference, not a political one.
Sarah32 - 10/25/12 @ 1:02 PM
@Jordan- When I say I look at the Bible as my compass, I'm not exclusively talking about the moral (social) issues. I'm also talking about economic policies, foreign trade, etc. I feel like where there is more liberty, there is more of the Biblical concept of freedom. I'm not saying the candidate is necessarily Christian who holds such beliefs. I'm saying they offer a Christian aspect that could be lacking from another candidate. Thus, I use the Bible as a compass to gage which candidate holds Christian principles, and which ones do not.
Now, I'm also not saying that every Christian is instantaneously a wonderful candidate for a major leadership position. You're right, some Christians may not have the best policies, and are not constituents I could support. However, with everything said, I would like to have someone who holds a similar worldview as me-- but that would ideally include a similar political worldview as well as a religious one.
I'm with you on Obama's economic fail. Bush initially failed us financially (in my opinion) but Obama hasn't offered any solutions to get out of the hole- only solutions on how to get deeper in the hole lol.