When I hear about terrorist attacks on the news or rapist or abortions, I get so angry and feel so much hate towards these people. I always try to help sinners but when a sinner is destroying life, the most precious of all God's creations, all I want to see is that/those person/people die. I HATE terrorists, I HATE abortionists, I HATE serial killers, I HATE rapists, I HATE torturers and I sadly have no problem killing any of those people. It sounds sick and I understand you're all thinking "that makes you no better than them" but is it okay to kill one person in order to prevent them from killing many? If I saw someone about to shoot a child and I had a gun, I'd use it to kill the potential murderer and I feel completely sinless and content saying that. What is the difference here? I'm sure anyone would kill Hitler or Bin Laden if they had the chance so why are these other people exceptions?
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25 replies on this topic
With Love On Your Arms - 1/23/12 @ 9:42 AM
http://www.gotquestions.org/you-shall-not-murder.html
Jordan, I hope you're doing well. I recommend you read this article and find the answer to your question with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Please feel free to post on my wall on facebook and tell me if you're getting better.
By the way, about abortion, I watched the 180 documentary and it was amazing! Really changed the way I viewed things.
Jordan Dean - 1/23/12 @ 3:48 PM
@Jen - That article talked about how capitol punishment is used against people who commit horrible acts such as murder. If the administration ruling society fails to enact capitol punishment on a person guilty of murder or "serial killing", who should enact this capitol punishment? Or should we allow anarchy and have serial killers continue to slay innocent victims with no consequence or protection for those victims?
CraigSnedeker - 1/23/12 @ 5:02 PM
@Jen there is a difference between murder and killing, I think...
Jordan Dean - 1/23/12 @ 6:17 PM
@CraigSnedeker - There obviously is a difference between murder and killing. If someone attacked me and I pushed them and they happened to fall and fatally hit their head, that's a killing but not murder. If I'm driving and a 5 year old runs in front of my car while I'm doing 50 and have no time to stop, that's killing not murder. If I'm a Marine and a Taliban soldier is shooting at my unit and I deliver lethal return fire, I killed him but did not murder him. If I get angry at someone and go to their house and stab them, I murdered them. Murder is sin, killing is not.
CraigSnedeker - 1/23/12 @ 6:58 PM
Yes, I agree.
But the example in your first post is still something that I am unsure about because you physically pull the trigger of the gun.. yes, to save an innocent life, but is that considered murder?
Just wondering :)
Thirst - 1/23/12 @ 7:26 PM
Nope. We have to be better than that.
Now, I do admit to believing in incapcitation. Death may seem like the final incapacitation, but it removes their only chance of salvation.
Consider the story of David and Saul. Saul was put into the hands of David, but instead of killing the king, David merely cut the hem of Saul's robe and showed him that the Lord was with David. In response, Saul surrendered to God's will and stopped hunting David.
This is the Biblical example laid down, if we are not to go into the law which commands us not only not to muder, but to refrain from hating these people. They need Christ as much as we do. Perhaps they are only behind us in that we have already accepted Christ, but if they are dead they will not get that chance, will they?
Jordan Dean - 1/23/12 @ 9:12 PM
@Thirst - Thank you, that was eye opening but I'd have to counter it with this: death removes one's chance at salvation therefore keeping a killer alive that you know will kill other people would be preventing all the victims from receiving salvation. ie. Imagine all the Jews the Nazis killed that are now in Hell because they weren't saved. If someone killed Hitler, Hitler would have no chance to salvation yet it would allow the hundreds of would-have-been-killed Jews a chance at salvation. Is it right to protect a murderer's chance to salvation over someone else's?
Thirst - 1/24/12 @ 2:54 PM
You could say if someone arrested Hitler, all these things would not have happened. That doesn't require him dead, but it does incapacitation.
I believe in incapacitation, truly, I do. But not be any means necessary; again, we have to be better than that. Perhaps so many would not have been murdered if someone had shot him just as he was rising in power. Maybe the world would be better. Perhaps there would be lot less chance for him to take advantage of the people if the leaders of Europe had listened to President Wilson, perhaps, maybe.... We can't play these games.
God runs the universe. It's not our place to decide whether the world would be better this way, or if one should die or one should live. Our only concern is in following His commands, and killing is not doing so
Jordan Dean - 1/24/12 @ 8:27 PM
It would have been impossible to arrest Hitler...
If we could kill one murderer to save 100 lives, I believe we should. It's the greater good.
Alpha - 1/24/12 @ 9:09 PM
The "greater good" is the eternal good, and it is beyond any mans foresight.
Is it any good to save the world and lose your soul?
Thirst - 1/24/12 @ 9:12 PM
Again, Jordan, who are we to decide whether or not it is for the greater good?
What if instead of those hundred people dying because of that one man, instead a thousand die because he did? I'm fairly sure when Franz Ferdinand was shot, it was for 'the greater good' - and instead WW1 happened.
We can't decide who is to live and who is to die; I am not God, I don't fully know the consquences of any of my actions. I know, however, that the Lord does, and so I trust in Him and follow His laws
Jordan Dean - 1/24/12 @ 10:13 PM
@Alpha - Is it any good to save your soul at the expense of other souls?
@Thirst - So you believe in allowing killers to walk free and continue killing?
Thirst - 1/25/12 @ 5:23 AM
No? Did I not say (twice) I believe in incapacitation? You do realize that means to deliver to the state of being powerless? As in unable to kill or murder anymore?
You know, that happens to be a minor annoyance of mine, when people know what I mean and intend and run with it. Like when I say education is pointless if it isn't for a purpose, people are like 'OMGZ HE THINKS EDUCATION IS POINTLESS'. -_-
Please, Jordan, for my peace of mind don't ever do that again
Jordan Dean - 1/25/12 @ 7:37 AM
@Thirst - Stop complaining and getting frustrated for no reason. Obviously the state isn't doing that because we have abortionists all over and killers are being pardoned left and right therefore incapacitation has become impossible unless you manage to get elected president, speaker and reside over 5 of the Justice seats.
Spirit in the Sky - 1/25/12 @ 10:46 AM
Not to throw gasoline on the flames, but did any of you see this story of how a man on death row wrote about his 'life of leisure'?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/death-row-inmate-writes-taunting-letter-life-leisure/story?id=15438651
Zombie Pickles - 1/25/12 @ 11:10 AM
Hating something that is true evil, I believe is OK. For instance, God gave Pharoh a chance to change and he didn't. So God killed him.
And he told His people to rejoice Pharoh's death.
Give them a chance to turn around before all out killing them and if they still don't repent and stop what they are doing then killing them woudl be justified.
Thirst - 1/25/12 @ 3:55 PM
Jordan -
I'm not getting frustrated for no reason, I've simply grown tired of how you constantly treat me with contempt and constantly twist what I've put out. Listen to what I say and you'll see the reason in my words. I'm not here to bring you down or argue with you, I'm here to remind you of what God's word says. And I have.
So please, do the following things -
1) Accept that being pro-choice doesn't make me, or anyone else, evil
2) Listen to what God has laid down in His word
Understood? Or are you going to twist that, too?
Jordan Dean - 1/25/12 @ 7:36 PM
@Spirit in the Sky - Very interesting article. Thanks
@Zombie Pickles - So if one witnesses to an abortion doctor and explains to them what they are actually doing and they refuse to stop, killing them is justified?
@Thirst - Being pro-choice means one is in favor of mothers having the power to decapitate their children which according to my Book, is murder therefore, pro-choice is in favor of institutionalize murder which I believe is evil. You obviously remain oblivious to all the pro-life verses in the Bible. Understood or am I twisting your words that I've not once quoted?
Alpha - 1/25/12 @ 8:21 PM
Spirit in the sky(we shld just call ya "SITS" =P
But yeah, that isn't really justice at all. (though id say most people misunderstand justice entirely)
Alpha - 1/25/12 @ 8:23 PM
Thirst - i didnt know you were pro-choice?