The Bible says homosexuality is wrong, so this topic is not to debate whether it is or not. This is to debate whether is should be legalized or not. The question is: Should Christians fight against the legalization of same sex marriages?
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36 replies on this topic
John - 11/30/11 @ 1:10 PM
We should spread the gospel and not get too involved in politics. If gays want to get married it's their choice. We can preach them the bible but shouldn't do to much else. If they want to please God they'll refrain if not well it's their lost.
Stephen - 11/30/11 @ 1:40 PM
If someone wants to get a paper from the State saying they are married, blonde, or their name is Peter Patrick Smith that's cool.
The sacredness (not a real word) of my marriage comes from God not the State.
Would I be baptized if the State issued me a license saying so? NO! that's just silly.
Is my name Stephen because the State says so? NO!
Homosexual couples will be in their relationship irregardless of a law or not.
I think another question to ask is, Does God judge nations? If so, Does he judge the individuals for the nation? If that too, will I be judged for something the State does that I don't like? Remember, our voting system did not exist so you won't find any scriptures directly commenting on it, in our context.
Also, we don't have a choice to whom we are born, what era, and what country. I cannot help that I was born in America as much as I can help that I was born. I don't get a choice. Does that affect this whole idea of God holding American Christians responsible?
joseBloodBought - 11/30/11 @ 3:27 PM
John and Stephen you are both right & wrong for various reasons.
Right.
1. The whole duty of man is to serve God. So ultimately our first priority is to forward the gospel message.
2. Marriage is not defined by the state but by God so no matter how the state decides to redefine marriage they cannot change the true context and entity of marriage.
3. Homosexual couples (if not redeemed) will act in their sin whether its legislated or not.
Wrong.
1. The word politics comes from Greek meaning of, for, or relating to citizens. All things political relate to us a citizens of a nation therefore in every manner we are involved in politics.
2. While it is often said that we cannot legislate morality that statement is often misunderstood in its implications. We cannot pass legislation that will force people to be moral people. By nature people are immoral so no amount of legislation can make a person moral; however, we cannot legislate without morality. All legislation comes from someon's morality or lack thereof. People believe that the right thing to do is grant gays equal rights. that is a moral decision. Therefore an attempt to legislate morality. So what the Christian aims to do is to present a morality based on Christ and focused on the gospel that upholds Christ's moral convictions. We do play a role in politics. Politics is not the means to changing and saving men but in all affairs as they relate to citizens we should aim to have a system that reflects the gospel.
3. @Stephen it doesn't matter whether our actions affect God's judgment the fact is that we as Christians should ultimately care for God's established order and the profaning of what God calls holy. Matrimony is a holy thing. So though it does not effect us in terms of our marriage or our salvation it doesn't mean that we should remain in our little box and leave the affairs of the nation to those without Christian centered morals. If it is not our place to show Chrost centered morality through the citizenship and through political means then whose jon is it. Should only the satanist be involved in politics?
4. Just because we are in a different cultural context does not mean the scriptures are silent about our responsibility. God establishes the rulers and governements. Therefore that we are in a democratic republic is not an accident. that we have freedom to vote, speak freely, and even freedom to protest the decisions of the government are freedoms that the christian should utilize for the gospels sake. To think that our theology is only for the religious compartment of our life and has nothing to do with the political and civil aspects of our lives is foolish thinking.
Thirst - 11/30/11 @ 4:09 PM
We should vote against it, and if asked why, explain that we see it as a sin, but more than that no, we shouldn't act. It's not our decision to make - our decision is how we will act and provide an example of both tolerance and holiness (which really do go hand in hand, just look at who Christ hung out with)
joseBloodBought - 11/30/11 @ 4:19 PM
Don't agree that tolerance and holiness goes hand in hand. People seem to think that Christ was just out clubbing with sinners. When Christ dined with those tax collectors and drunkards they were convicted, they were impacted. He didn't just aimlessly love on them but the sick began ti understand why they needed a physician and that He was that Physician. He said He came not to call the righteouss but sinners to repentance. When He dined with them it was to draw them to repentance. A task that I know He did not fail at. God does not tolerate sin. I am not saying that we should not love the homosexual but that love should be motivated by the gospel and should navigate them to the gospel. Not just some all tolerating love as if that is a virtue. Jesus accepts as sinners but He sanctifies us. that we may be cleansed for Him to present to Himself without blemish.
Jordan Dean - 11/30/11 @ 4:50 PM
Homosexuals getting married would not hurt anyone. Homosexuals would also be sinning regardless since the Bible declares that the sin begins in the mind, therefore regardless if they're married, they are still committing the sin. Homosexuals would even still commit to the same physical actions as a married couple (living together, sex, etc.). The only difference would be that they could have a man-made document stating they are married by the nation's standards.
However, saying "Yes" would signify that we support gay marriage and a "No" would say we are strictly against this legal document being obtained by homosexual couples. Why not simply abstain?
Needy Servant - 11/30/11 @ 6:27 PM
READ AGAIN BOTH OF JOSE'S POSTS... NAILED IT BROTHER
Stephanie - 11/30/11 @ 7:47 PM
Your vote is your political voice. It is part of your conduct and your actions. Thus, you must "conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel" (Philippians 1:27), ie, place your vote according to the Bible. So basically, yes we should fight against its legalization using the political means that we have at our disposal. Obviously we do not want to be all "in your face Im about to try and do a work in your life that only the Holy Spirit can do" type of attitude, but we do want to use the appropriate means we have at our disposal and use our voice. God has placed us in a country where we have a vote and we should, by all means, use it. :)
Thirst - 11/30/11 @ 8:51 PM
Um, don't take what I said and run with it. I completely agree with you, however, I said nothing about aimlessly loving on people.
To clarify, I think that while we should vote against it, and obviously try and influence them (which is mostly just hanging out with them and caring about them), we should recognize it's not our decision to make, it's their's. Yes, we are to be fisher of men. That does not mean we get to determine what other people choose. Fishers, not hunters
Jordan Dean - 12/1/11 @ 1:11 AM
More important than marriage, God says we must accept Jesus into our hearts. Should we create a legal dispute here and make it illegal to be unsaved and fight against our 1st Amendment right? Man's law should first, protect us from bodily harm, second, allow us to advance economically, and third, let us live how we want without contradicting the first 2 rules. Why should it be the governments job to govern what marriage is? Marriage is something established by God that no legal document could ever change. It would be the same as if the government said a prayer is only valid if your hands are folded, left fingers over right, and your head bowed at a 45 degree angle. Man cannot change God's law, so why fight it?
Alpha - 12/1/11 @ 10:48 PM
Dang, talk of political right and wrong is just so...idk, cold? its so impersonal. hearts are changed in the individual, right? shouldnt nations be kinda in the background compared to this?
not to downplay the importance of legislation....but i think all things are made to be for the benefit of teaching us in our walk with God...and to me it seems like sometimes the tools become more important than the trade.
Jordan Dean - 12/2/11 @ 2:58 AM
I hate when people try to say talking about politics is wrong. The word politics means "relating to citizens" therefore every aspect of our life is basically political. We should always be discussing politics as it directly affects God's people. Parts of Congress may be corrupt and be using acts as tools but these discussions are intended to find what is best for all of us therefore we NEED to talk about them so we have a clear understanding of the issue rather than being trapped in our little comprehension and allowing our legislative branch to do what they please.
So Alpha, when you say "talk about political right and wrong" which directly translates into "talk about issues relating to the citizens being right and wrong" it is in no way "cold".
I agree with you last sentence but strong emphasize the word "sometimes" and I do not believe this is one of those mentioned times.
Redemption - 12/2/11 @ 11:48 AM
This is a crazy topic. You've got Marriage in general. Christians in general believe it's to be between a man and a woman. Nothing wrong with beliefs. However, non-Christians are indifferent in general. I think if we, as Christians take 'right's away from the non-believers based on Christianity...then we are shooting ourselves down in the long run. Banning marriage between same sex couples because of the Bible would be the same as Atheists getting prayer banned in schools.
You'd say, "we have a right to pray in school because we aren't hurting or affecting anyone..."
They'd say, "we have a right to allow same sex marriage...because we aren't hurting or affecting anyone."
If Christians ban together and get same-sex marriage banned, I really think ultimately it'll be a mistake. To get it banned is one thing; to not support it is another.
Thirst - 12/2/11 @ 2:30 PM
Yeah, Redemption! That's what I'm talking about
Jordan Dean - 12/2/11 @ 7:38 PM
@Redemption - Very good point, love the comparison. One question though that I haven't seen addressed yet, is homosexuality a choice or are they born with it? Please have actual science to back up your stance and not just opinions.
Alpha - 12/2/11 @ 8:57 PM
Jordan, what do you accept as "actual science" because I don't think anyone here is a neurologist or a genetic specialist sooooooooo it's all opinion about who ya wanna quote :P
Jordan Dean - 12/3/11 @ 4:02 AM
@Alpha - It's easy to do research and find articles and quote real neurologist and genetic specialists. Instead of just quoting their opinions, quote their research. I'm awaiting emails from a a few professors on genetics, psychology, etc. so I'll be putting out some points soon.
Thirst - 12/3/11 @ 6:11 PM
I say it's a choice, because (please don't flame me) I chose not to.
I had moments where I had thought of guys like that - and I told myself, no, this is not who I am, this is not who God would have me be. And now I am without any desire, because God has made me stronger than what Satan can throw at me, in that area - so Satan doesn't even bother.
I made the choice to be straight, so I am. Thus, I can say that it is a choice, not to be gay.
I also believe that God would not make something a sin if humans could not conquer it - what would be the point?
Alpha - 12/3/11 @ 8:10 PM
jordan-- people most only look for evidence that supports the answer they already believe in and find reasons why any counter evidence is folly. At least when their pride and view of the world is on the line....I know ive been the worst at it.
Jordan Dean - 12/4/11 @ 5:41 PM
@Thirst - Great story but that doesn't really prove anything. Could have easily been an isolate incident.
@Alpha - I'm more of a Rousseau type right now and am assuming people on here are good enough to present both sides and only use credible research.