Anyone here still confused about this Scripture and not sure why it says God hardened his heart.
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13 replies on this topic
Reagan - 11/21/11 @ 11:35 PM
I'm actually studying this in my Bible class. But, God gave Pharaoh chance after chance to ask for forgiveness and turn to Him, but he never did and wouldn't. God knew the condition of Pharaoh's heart. I believe in predestination, and I think this proves it. God gave him a chance, God knew the condition of his heart.
Sarah32 - 11/22/11 @ 1:03 AM
I know many people have a hard time swallowing the fact that God hardened the heart of Pharaoh. I think it needs to be noted that God did not change Pharaoh's intrinsic nature. Pharaoh was ALREADY far from God and evil in his ways. God simply urged him to make a terrible declaration concerning the people of Israel. This seemingly awful decision had a purpose behind it- it proved God's faithfulness. God was able to show them throughout the years His salvation so they would know it was God's hands who saved them from bondage and not Pharaoh's.
What would have happened if God didn't harden the heart of Pharaoh? The Israelites would have been freed from the bondage of Pharaoh by his own decree and would have given man the accolades for breaking free from the yoke of slavery, not God. God always, always has a reason for everything He does.:)
PutHisBloodOnIt - 11/22/11 @ 6:27 AM
This is what we studied and discussed in class, we know that God is good all the time and never changes his nature, so he himself would never reach down and harden pharaohs heart on purpose, that would not be in the nature of God to do something like that..what this Scripture does mean is that peoples heart reacts different to God for instance take a stick of butter and some clay put them both in the sun, as the sun shines down one object melts the other hardens two different things happen from the same source hitting it. So when it says God hardened his heart it does not mean he did it intentionally it means that the nature of God and his goodness hardened pharaohs heart even more and for people like us his love does not harden our hearts just like the clay and the butter analogy our hearts soften because of God and pharoahs and others harden because of God and so this actually when taken and understood in the right context does not show predestination is true rather it shows free will. Hope that helped you all understand more, sure helped me.
joseBloodBought - 11/22/11 @ 11:07 AM
PHBOI You are not properly rendering the context of the text. the scripture does not suggest what you have written at all yet your presuppositions do. God hardened pharoahe's heart on purpose. The text does not suggest that pharoah reacted to God differently but that God Himself hardened his heart. Now despite how that my tarnish your concept of God don't twist up the text to make it say what it doesn't. it doesn't mean that the nature of God hardened his heart but that God hardened his heart. If you deny this fact it is because you base your views on your presuppositions rather than the text. lets see what the bible says concerning God hardening hearts.
John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."
Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
Exodus 4:21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.
Exodus 7:4 he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites.
Exodus 7:13 Yet Pharaoh's heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the LORD had said.
Exodus 10:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them
Exodus 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go.
Exodus 11:10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.
Exodus 14:8 The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, so that he pursued the Israelites, who were marching out boldly.
Joshua 11:20 For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.
joseBloodBought - 11/22/11 @ 11:11 AM
Deuteronomy 2:30 But Sihon king of Heshbon refused to let us pass through. For the LORD your God had made his spirit stubborn and his heart obstinate in order to give him into your hands, as he has now done.
Romans 11:7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
Romans 9:16-17 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
joseBloodBought - 11/22/11 @ 11:24 AM
Now there are those who would say that if this is the case then I am suggesting something unrighteouss about God. Well Romans 9 addresses that
Romans 9:14-15(KJV)
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion
Therefore it is not unrighteous for God to harden the heart of man. For He is God. His ways are higher and His thoughts exponentially more profound. He is the author of morality and the incarnation of goodness. If God does something that does not compute with what we regard as moral the error is not with God but in our lack of submission to His sovereign authority to do as He pleases for His purpose and to His glory. You say that the hardening of phaorah shows free will. Without eisegeting a presupposition you cannot extrapolate that from the text. It doesn't suggest that pharoahs heart was hardened because of pharoah but rather by God. So that He may show His power and might(Romans 9:17).You say it displays free will but one cannot soften or harden their heart. Your analogy actually makes this point clear. The sun softens the butter and hardens the clay. The clay doesn't harden itself or choose to be clay and the butter doesn't soften itself or choose to be butter. God softens and hardens hearts.
Romans 9:19-21
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
PutHisBloodOnIt - 11/22/11 @ 1:02 PM
Its very simple Jose God did harden his heart but not with the intent too God is good like I said before his nature does not change, would God give someone sickness No, the context in which it is written is not what you think just by reading it you have to understand the nature of God and who he is to understand what this verse means. When it says God hardened his heart its really saying that Pharoah denied God when God revealed himself even more pharoah heart hardened even more.Please read and pray about it more.
PutHisBloodOnIt - 11/22/11 @ 1:08 PM
Also all the verses you provided when it says "he did this" or "he did that" also backs up my original stance that when you take these in context it doesn't mean God is controlling them like a puppet it means that when they see or encounter God even more it continues to harden and calous hearts. I argue you are doing the same thing you accuse me of, my emotions are not tied to this subject I read the word of God for what it is and its context placing my emotions and feelings aside.
PutHisBloodOnIt - 11/22/11 @ 1:26 PM
But let me add that I know I could be wrong I could be wrong about anything I post ever on this site, I realize that one day when we get to heaven we will be suprised about somethings we thought we were right on. But I studied this topic for awhile now and this is my belief based on Gods word.
joseBloodBought - 11/22/11 @ 1:33 PM
You are ignoring the text my friend for your own assumptions. All of the text I quoted have the Lord Himself saying that He will or has hardened a heart or given a stubborn spirit. God has a complex nature indeed. He is holy, sovereign, righteouss, just, vengeful, wrathful, jealous, loving, mighty, kind, judging, and much more. For God to hardened the heart of pharoah does not conflict with the totality of God's nature. But it takes one to embraqce the fullness of God's nature in order to embrace that. If we think that god is more loving than He is just then God would send no one to hell. But in god's love is also a declaration of His justice. People refuse to embrace these attibutes of God but that dont take them any less present. You err by interpreting the text through a suppostion that God would not act in a way that you dont think of as good. But God being the very definition of good can do something we don't fully understand or agree with and retain His goodness. God doesn't suspend His goodness nor does He suspend His wrath or His glory. Lets read the text for what it says. It says what it says. And it means what it says. God is no les good if He hardens a heart. What should be on trial in understanding this text is not whether or not it is right for God to do so, but whether or not we submit to God for those matters that we don't understand? By trying to formulate an understanding you have did an injustice to the text because you have made them say what they don't. Submit to them as they are written and if it does not agree with what you believe about God then relinquish your faculties of understanding and submit to God's sovereign authority to do things beyond what you can agree or understand.
joseBloodBought - 11/22/11 @ 1:41 PM
I as well have studied this and this continues to be one of the biggest debates within Christianity. I don't think you are less or I am more. But I think in this debate we must all get of our way and see what the text says. There is indeed an absolute in the scripture but it will only be met by God unveling it by the power of His spirit.
PutHisBloodOnIt - 11/22/11 @ 2:54 PM
I still stand firm in my belief, we both belive that God did harden his heart but disagree in how he did it also throughout scripture.
Stephanie - 11/22/11 @ 10:04 PM
I have been thinking about this scripture a lot recently. I find it quite ironic that you brought it up. I will have to read through all the previous comments when it's not 1am. lol