Stances, thoughts, opinions, beliefs, scripture, etc. Please present your stance before questioning/debating others.
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69 replies on this topic
Nicole - 10/14/11 @ 11:27 PM
Against. First of all, "you who hasn't sinned can throw the first stone" so basically im no different than these murderers EXCEPT that I believe in Jesus and that I am saved through him. Why in the world, would we teach people that killing people is wrong by... Killing people? What happened to turn the other cheek?
Jordan Dean - 10/15/11 @ 4:47 AM
I am not actual sure where I stand on this, hence this thread so I can see why others have their stances.
@nicole - Good answer Nicole; very straight forward and nice use of scripture to back yourself up. What do your propose we do with all the serial killers, terrorists, etc.?
CraigSnedeker - 10/15/11 @ 4:59 AM
Against the death sentence. Only God can say who dies and who lives.
PutHisBloodOnIt - 10/15/11 @ 6:10 AM
You can be against the death sentence thats fine it your opinion, and you can be for the death sentence also thats fine to its not a sin its something God gave man choice over to regulate. @ Nicole remember killing and murdering are two different things they are not the same by definition remember that.Below are scriptures that you mentioned that many people think that refutes the death penalty in the bible but actually do not.Reasins they do not are below.
John 8:3-11, Jesus does not endorse stoning of the adulterous woman.
A good point, but invalid in context. Because the Romans held the rule of life and death and the right to implement CP, this was a challenge to Jesus to commit sedition. If he had said, "Go ahead," he would have been arrested. By itself this offers no injunction against CP, since it was not really an option; moreover, Jesus' reply indicates, "If we are to enforce it this time, some of you are next."
Matt. 5:38-9, Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
This is one of several passages cited of a type which encourage not resisting evil, not taking revenge, and so on. But they are all in the context of personal relationships and have nothing to do with the judicial functions of the state.
Certainly persons should forgive others who commit criminal acts against them, but this does not oblige the state to "forgive". If it did, then we could not even imprison a person or so much as exact a fine for a parking ticket.
Jesus Himself refrains from using violence, He does not deny that the State has the authority to exact capital punishment. He cites with approval the harsh commandment, "He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die", in His debate with the Pharisees (Matthew 15:4; Mark 7:10, Cf. Exodus 21:17; Leviticus 20:9). In His trial before Pilate, Jesus did not contest Pilate's right to execute offenders but reminded him that this authority came "from above". (John 19:11).
Nicole - 10/15/11 @ 7:31 AM
@phboi. I see some of your points, however I would have to counter that I think you might be overthinking some of the stories and missing the point. But I also can be completely wrong. Anyways, I'm still against it. Who am I to judge these people? That's God's job.
@jordan, to be absolutley honest with you I have no clue lol. Alcatraz seemed smart until those 2 prisoners escaped and it was shut down. I honestly have no idea... Can I get back to you on that?
PutHisBloodOnIt - 10/15/11 @ 7:51 AM
I am simply just trying to show that the death penalty is not sinful or the bible condemns it. I know many people think its so wrong based on their feelings but we have to set our feelings aside and read what the bible says about it. I use to be against it fully until I read the bible and seen that there is no scriptures that condemn it in the old or new testament. I dont believe I am over thinking the stories at all im just reading them in there context, many people try to take scripture and try to fit them into examples to prove their stance like you did on your death penalty stance which I just wanted to show you that those two stories in the bible does not show that death penalty in sinful and in no way speaks against capitol punishment. But either way if you agree with it so be it or if you disagree with it thats fine. Its one of those things that will be argued until the end of time lol
Nicole - 10/15/11 @ 10:14 AM
Lol yeah, Im sorry if offended you I in no means meant to do that and I think I came off as a little harsh. This is just one of those things we are going to have to agree to disagree lol
PutHisBloodOnIt - 10/15/11 @ 10:31 AM
ha ha no not offended at all! most people over the years on here are way to sensitive and left cause of it, I pretty much seen it all on the forum besides were on the internet its hard to even tell the emotions someone feels when posting on here.
Nicole - 10/15/11 @ 10:39 AM
yeah no joke! I have to refrain from using sarcasm when I'm on the web because I come off as rude lol. Also, I really don't like arguing and it's kind of rare when I do argue, and I guess I could say I'm a people pleaser so to speak. I ultimatley want to please God first and foremost, but there is that small part of me that really hates conflict and hates to argue and really hates it when people are angry or upset with me! It tends to be my downfall because I cave easily. I can't stay mad at someone especially if they are angry with me haha. I used to hate that about myself but sometimes it's a huge help. It means that if I do get into an argument it is short lived :-)
Japlace - 10/15/11 @ 10:45 AM
I know this is an unorthodox answer, but I believe Jesus wasn't just talking about taxes here. I believe it applied to all governmental issues. Such as what the government does and regulates, and oversees.
Mark 12:13-17
Later the leaders sent some Pharisees and supporters of Herod to trap Jesus into saying something for which he could be arrested. “Teacher,” they said, “we know how honest you are. You are impartial and don’t play favorites. You teach the way of God truthfully. Now tell us—is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? Should we pay them, or shouldn’t we?”
Jesus saw through their hypocrisy and said, “Why are you trying to trap me? Show me a Roman coin, and I’ll tell you.” When they handed it to him, he asked, “Whose picture and title are stamped on it?”
“Caesar’s,” they replied. “Well, then,” Jesus said, “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.” His reply completely amazed them.
Let man do what he does (if that is the death sentence, so be it). If it is wrong for them to do it, then refrain from it yourself! It is quite simple.
edit: One more thing, there are always, yes ALWAYS, going to be people who go against God's word.
Japlace - 10/15/11 @ 10:56 AM
@bob+nicoles comment. Yes, we have seen a lot of stuff on here. I think Kristen was one who really got offended. But there has been a lot, and it truly saddens me! Let me say it now, IT IS OKAY TO BE OFFENDED, but to hold it in and not resolve it is the worst thing to do, and I can show proof on this forum to back that up. *Also let me say this is my words, so don't think it is scriptural,lol. (If you wanna find a verse that supports or contradicts it, go ahead! I love to talk haha)
Stephen - 10/15/11 @ 1:23 PM
@puthisblood - I believe a lot of people subscribe themselves to gunverment desicions in the same way they do personal choices. Since we percieve all gunvernment actions as effects of our choices (causes), whether that be direct or indirect.
Thanks for pointing out that the State is a separate entity that can, sometimes, have complex connections to us as individuals.
Were the 1st centruy Christians held liable by God for Rome's or any other Governor's decision?
Jordan Dean - 10/15/11 @ 8:32 PM
@All for the DP - If you were the one who had to personally inject the killing cocktail into the person on death row, would you stance change?
@All against the DP - What do we do with people who repeatedly murder others whenever they get a chance? Is it right for those who obey the law to have to pay for the ones in prison for life?
Japlace - 10/15/11 @ 11:37 PM
I would not change my stance, but me as an individual, could not have that job. Hypothetically or not, I would not apply for that job, and if appointed that job, I would quit.
corro13 - 10/16/11 @ 1:02 AM
i wouldnt change my stance, i dont know if id quit, but i dont think id change my stance.
Ariel - 10/16/11 @ 4:33 PM
I was thinking about this, being someone who has been a victim of a crime, and I was thinking about the person who did this, and even though I would love to send him back to jail because I believe that he did not get punished at all. (only got 3 months, on weekends, so 90 days on weekends, but then got let out half way through on good behavior). But then, even though I would love for him to be punished, I think that the death penalty would be very harsh.
If I, being the victim of this person, think that the death penalty is too harsh, then I think that it's too harsh in general. Should they be punished? Yes, absolutely. But I get a second chance when I sin, so why not them?
Jordan Dean - 10/16/11 @ 5:38 PM
@Japlace - So it's okay that people are put to death for the highest crimes as long as you don't have to take part in it?
@Corro - So are you saying you'd be willing to actually end a man/woman's life if the courts agreed on it and he/she was proven guilty of a horrendous crime?
@Ariel - I am only referring to the death penalty being used on murderers. How should they be punished?
CraigSnedeker - 10/16/11 @ 6:39 PM
I agree with @nicole in her second post. I don't think it's man's job to judge someone to death. Some people might deserve it, yes, but I don't think we should have the power to take another life; a life that can be changed and used my God. A lot of murderers, for example, have turned their lives to God and done amazing things. Anyone can change. Killing them isn't always what God wants (IMHO)
PutHisBloodOnIt - 10/16/11 @ 7:11 PM
But Craig you have to understand that God gave man responsibility to do so through government, remember dont base your beliefs off your feelings go by the word of God. So far no one has come up with scripture that shows God is against capitol punishment, if anyone has any verses please post them, and I already showed why the three verses Nicole mentioned does not show capital punishment is forbidden in the bible.
Ariel - 10/16/11 @ 7:55 PM
Like I said, I see the person who hurt me, and I see it as being too harsh to have a death penalty on him. He is the person that I hate the most in this world, and at times would love to see him tortured, punished, and killed. BUT I do think that the death penalty would have been unreasonable.
In saying that, murderers...God says that all sins are the same, right? stealing, or lying, is the same as murder, or rape, or any other sin. Sin is sin to him. So shouldn't we all be sentenced to death? Shouldn't we have all died up on that cross? Yes. But Jesus did it for us. I don't know the mind of a murderer, I admit that. I don't know their thoughts, their lives, nothing. But Jesus died for them too.