I mean... Jesus turned water into wine and tonight I had red kosher wine, and I'm a little bit tipsy right now. The Bible does warn us against "drunkenness," but what is drunkenness? Past tipsy?
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18 replies on this topic
Cthulhu - 4/16/11 @ 11:41 PM
i personally thinks it ok. but not underaged. when im 21 im gonna drink. but to drink, not because i need something to feel that "hole inside my heart"
Japlace - 4/17/11 @ 12:00 AM
There wasn't cars, or guns or anything like there is today in Bible times. The two times cannot be compared when talking about drinking.
With that said, I do not think it is okay to drink. Sure, it wont hurt at that very time, or even in years to come, but it will affect you in the long run.
Every parent that I have grown up around that has drank when their kids (my friends at the time) were young have had HUGE troubles with their kids.
I see absolutely no purpose in drinking. Underage or overage, makes no difference. The only purpose the term "underage" was made was to prevent lawsuits. Drinking affects everyone in different ways, but it has the same essential affect on everyone. that being the term "drunk". And the Bible says that it is wrong. Whether you believe being tipsy is drunk, or passed out is up to you. But in my eyes they all lead to the same place eventually.
There is no point to having a glass of wine, or a 12 pack of beer.
I will not apologize for this rant, and if you have any offenses against it, please comment.
Alyssa Faith Mark. Rep - 4/17/11 @ 12:08 AM
I agree with Japlace! I have several family members who drink and one in particular I believe to be an alcoholic. I wouldn't drink, you never know what it might lead to! :)
Jordan Dean - 4/17/11 @ 7:41 AM
I'm Italian over here so wine is a major part of every dinner. I drink like two glasses almost every day but I never get drunk or even tipsy so I don't see a problem with it; it's just family traditions plus Jesus himself turned water into wine so it can't be bad. However, I never drink at parties or with friends because it just leads to other things and if you drink with wrong intentions or even with the possibility of it not pleasing God then it is wrong.
Ariel - 4/17/11 @ 8:05 AM
For me personally, my dad is an alcoholic and I would never ever risk myself going down the same road as him, so I will not drink. Also because I know I have an addictive nature. But to have a drink or two every once in a while, I don't see a problem with it. But being full out drunk, not okay.
daniel@seekGodnow.org - 4/17/11 @ 10:35 AM
@jordan,
that's not illegal?
asfaffa - 4/17/11 @ 10:57 AM
Thanks for your opinions, everyone :)
Japlace - About having parents drinking and their kids following... my dad is a pastor, and he NEVER had a drop as us kids were growing up... However, my two older brothers grew up to be drug addicts... they chose that on their own, but I do agree with you (I just don't think it's 100% in every case) - I know a lot of people who had alcoholic parents and they grew up very depressed and such. Also, when I drink, even if it's just a glass, I don't drive or do anything illegal or anything that is unpleasing to God. And just because Jesus turned water into wine years ago doesn't mean that it's sinful to drink a few glasses now. It's fine if you don't see a point, that's good, and yes I agree that times have changed BUT we're "not of this world..." Therefore, I don't conform to drinking and driving and going out in bad places where violence and guns might be around. Not only is that against the law, but it's also very un-Christlike... And just to point out - I live in Canada and guns are seldomly around... In conclusion, I have self-control when I drink so it doesn't lead to bad things, however, I know that even some of the best of Christians don't and that's AWESOME that they stay away from it. Everyone's body and spirit reacts differently. OH and I only drink during celebrations/family gatherings... which I believe is acceptable - Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding. I think if you're drinking just to "feel" something or drinking alone in boredom/depression, that's a problem.
Reagan - 4/17/11 @ 11:22 AM
I was almost killed by a drunk driver, so I'm totally against drinking. Because being buzzed and drunk are still the same thing. You still don't have control of your body. (my opinion)
asfaffa - 4/17/11 @ 11:25 AM
Reagan - But not everyone drinks and drives so you can't say that it's 100% wrong... us and our sinful nature make it wrong. And I totally agree that being even the slightest bit buzzed means that you have less control and that you shouldn't be driving or anything. And that's horrible what happened to you... I can understand how you feel. We have lots of drunk driving accidents/deaths here... It's absolutely sad and it makes me really mad. The alcoholic problems in the world are leading people to think that marijuana should be legalized because there's less fatalities... SO twisted.
Reagan - 4/17/11 @ 11:32 AM
See, I don't think there are different stages. You either have control, or you don't. And if you don't have control and all your friends are drunk, who will tell you not to drive or do something stupid? No one has control over anything that happens.
With the whole marijuana thing, it's more about the gov. being able to tax it and not having to spend more money on stopping it. It would cut down on a lot of costs and America would get more money.
asfaffa - 4/17/11 @ 11:37 AM
I know, once you take a sip you have less control... I don't lose all control though - I stop when I start feeling it and I don't do anything bad. You're talking about people who aren't Christians who party... Not everyone's saved, Reagan... And here in Canada, with the legalizing marijuana stuff, it's "it doesn't wreck your liver and there's no deaths." With a Christian viewpoint though, marijuana spazzes your brain out right away after smoking it... but certain amounts of alcohol do the same thing. So in my opinion, marijuana isn't okay because you're "drunk" after a few minutes and with alcohol - if you have control, if it's moderated... you don't get to that crazy point so it's okay.
Stephanie - 4/17/11 @ 11:46 AM
Okay.... so @Japlace
"There wasn't cars, or guns or anything like there is today in Bible times. The two times cannot be compared when talking about drinking."
^ I dont agree with that statement because, if you actually believe that, then what you are really saying is the Bible isnt relevant today. I know that you know the Bible is relevant today, but when you start giving instances or cases where it isnt relevant, you tread on a dangerous bridge called "legalism" - God's word is absolute and we just need to be careful when we start saying "well, this didnt exist back then..." because the Bible tends to deal more with heart issues rather than actual "items" - its timeless and its "living and active and sharper than any double-edged sword" (Hebrews 4:12) . Just a thought. :)
With that being said, I think that having alcohol in moderation is not a sin. It is a sin to be drunk. But, if that is a temptation for you, then certainly stay away from alcohol; because in that case, it would be sinful. I know some people who used to struggle with alcohol and cannot touch it because it control them even though they have been sober for years. I also know others who used to get drunk whenever they could got saved and its no longer an addiction or temptation for them - these people can drink alcohol because it has no control over them now.
Now, with all that being said... haha, I agree with Japlace when he said he sees no point in it. To me drinking seems to be a social event and serves no real purpose. I dont have a problem with having a drink, and I have had a drink here and there in the past; nor would I have a problem getting a drink in the future if I wanted, but I really see no point...so pour me some iced tea - haha!
asfaffa - 4/17/11 @ 11:48 AM
Hahaha, amen Steph!! I know, when you think about it there's not really a huge purpose... but alcohol has been around forever, it's a celebration drink thing. I think I'm going to do more research on it :)
Reagan - 4/17/11 @ 12:01 PM
I never said drinking was a sin, because it's not. Being drunk is. I, personally, will never drink and what not. I don't judge people who do either. One of my really good friend drinks. I know not everyone's saved. My point is, I guess, do whatever you want, just don't hurt anyone.
asfaffa - 4/17/11 @ 12:03 PM
Amen, Reagan :)
The Macks - 4/18/11 @ 5:20 AM
i think this article might help :)
http://whatdoesthebiblesayabout.com/archives/what-does-the-bible-say-about-drinking
I personally don't think being a believer and drinking is right, Jesus has one sip of whine when he broke bread with his disciples, it doesn't really mention to much more then that one time about Jesus having wine all the time or alcohol for that matter.
But i have has some bad experiences with drinking and i wont go back to it, i think even one drink can lead to your devastation. And even tho the bible does not give a clear yes or no, i think a lot of these scriptures in this article will help you see that Jesus really doesn't support the idea of drinking, but that is just my opinion :)
Godschild - 4/27/11 @ 10:34 PM
I think you should give it up because it can't lead to anything good. I used to drink in moderation but I decided to stop altogether. Then I recently convinced myself it wouldn't be a big deal to have one shot but instantly felt guilty. So for me at least I know that I'm not suppose to have any part in it. Hopefully I don't give in to my own reasoning and keep with it. Hope this helped you some how :)
Needy Servant - 4/28/11 @ 10:18 AM
i have been sober for almost 4 years now, though i have not been perfect and have fallen a few times. The act of drinking is not sinful, the bible has never said that drinking is a sin. Being drunk is absolutely a sin Ephesians 5:18 "And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit" -- the definition of dissipation is "a wasting by misuse" --
God is saying clearly here that wen we are drunk we are wasting our lives, our gifts, our time, our opportunities to witness, our relationship with Jesus Christ the King. ****This verse also certainly implies that when we are drunk the Holy Spirit gets the boot, we tell our Helper to leave we want to do what we want to do.
now as to what defines "drunk"... i think it is pretty simple- if you are not totally sober you are drunk. Please do not take this as an attack but to be perfectly honest saying "I am only tipsy" is just an excuse to sin. describe that phrase using the word sober - "I am just a little not sober" - or how about with the word drunk "I am not drunk. I'm just a little drunk"
Tipsy is just a euphemism for drunk.
If you are feeling the affects of the alcohol it is obviously not God's will.
This is an easy trap to fall into, but at the same time one of the most easily avoided sins and traps there is.
Proverbs 20:1 says "Wine [is] a mocker, Strong drink [is] a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise." This verse doesn't use the word drunk but its message is quite clear.
i once did a study on James and i wrote in my notes that "The more i sin the closer to hell or satan i get. Not literally or that i am now not saved, but rather that i fit the characteristic of a hell dweller - i draw further from God - which is closer to the enemy. If we are supposed to be conformed to His image and display His character traits drunk or tipsy has no place in my life.
Now imagine that somebody who was not saved saw you drinking and whether or not you knew them personally they knew you are a christian. And when they see this they just say to themselves "Oh, there goes another one of those christian hypocrites, living just like the world" Whether or not you were drunk they didn't know they just saw you drinking and it led them astray, away from Jesus who loves them.
Or possibly a christian brother or sister who sees you drinking and then says "Well if they drink then drinking must be okay" so they get drunk and sin because of you. Or if they had a problem with drinking in the past and you stumble them.
The bottom line is drinking is not a sin, any kind of drunk even just a little drunk (like you didn't murder that person, you only threw one punch, and then everybody got there one punch and he died) is definitely a sin.
1 Corinthians 10:31-32 "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God"
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These next verses from the mouth of God sum it up quite well....
Romans 14:13-23 "Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in [our] brother's way.
I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that [there is] nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.Yet if your brother is grieved because of [your] food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.For he who serves Christ in these things [is] acceptable to God and approved by men.Therefore let us pursue the things [which make] for peace and the things by which one may edify another.Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed [are] pure, but [it is] evil for the man who eats with offense.[It is] good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor [do anything] by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.Do you have faith? Have [it] to yourself before God. Happy [is] he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because [he does] not [eat] from faith; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin."
So if you could possibly stumble a brother or sister, don't do it. Even if it isn't drinking alcohol but if you are in the presence of a christian who thinks that eating meat on fridays is a sin, don't eat meat in front of them on friday.
Real quick to it says in the last verse there, if you doubt and still do it it is a sin
MEANING
If we think something might be a sin and then we do it anyway it is a sin.
LOVE
peace