http://www.c28.com/shopping/search.asp?sorttype=0&searchtext=catholic&Category1=&x=0&y=0
more pro-catholic and anti-catholic material. how can c28 promote catholicism and call itself christian? the two are against each other! catholicism is of the devil, and christianity is of God.
it really seems like c28 is out to make money. this is the 3rd time i've brought this up to the community, and the 2nd time c28 has had pro-catholic material next to anti-catholic material, showing they're in for the money and not for God's glory.
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23 replies on this topic
Leah T - 2/10/11 @ 12:26 PM
I think you misunderstand. The majority of that is how to talk to Catholics about the truth. And it's okay to read that stuff and still be Christian. If you have no understanding of other religions than how can you share the Gospel in a way they'd understand?
If you dislike C28 then maybe you should stop coming. I'm proud of C28 and I appreciate what they do! As a part of Campus Crusade for Christ I'm incredibly happy that they make it a ministry option. As with anything there is a business side and I feel as though your looking for an argument since you keep bringing this up.
daniel@seekGodnow.org - 2/10/11 @ 2:06 PM
@leah,
more than a few of the products c28 is selling is aimed at a Catholic audience to *promote* and encourage catholicism. yes some of them are also anti-catholic products. but what kind of integrity is this?
i am not looking for an argument, i am looking for support. the last time i brought this up, the majority of people supported my view and were interested in getting c28 to remove the pro-catholic material. within 2 days, c28 removed the pro-catholic material, but then added it again. then i brought it up again, but no one cared that time. now i am just bringing it up a third time. i'm not looking for an argument. i have tried emailing c28 on the matter, with no answer.
i do dislike c28. but why would i stop coming here just because i dislike them? i'm not sure how that makes sense, because it's my intention to try to improve c28. i appreciate some things c28 does but they are compromising their integrity for money.
yes there is a business side but what kind of business is this, if it sells pro-catholic and anti-catholic material both at once? is it a christian company? is it catholic? at this rate, it is neither of those.
@george
truth? yes there is some truth in catholic material, just enough for you to swallow the lies. this is about lies. this is about c28 selling lies. pro-catholic material could destroy faith, not strengthen it. i agree that it's not a sin to look at a pro-catholic Bible or to read a book by an atheist, but to sell this material to the audience it was intended for? if you support this, then why doesn't c28 sell "The God Delusion" or something like that? i'm sure there's a sentence or two of truth in there, why not sell it as well? but c28 is marketing christianity, and christianity is watered down in america enough that they can sell to catholics too.
this is as hypocritical as a catholic bookstore selling anti-catholic material. catholicism is anti-christian. therefore, selling pro-catholic material is selling anti-christian material.
PutHisBloodOnIt - 2/10/11 @ 2:23 PM
Wait a second when did they bring it back? When did u bring it up again? Cause I know the first time like Daniel said we all wanted it removed. And c28 is a great organization but they cannot keep trying to sell catholic material or any other material that does not line up with the word of God. Stuff like that cannot be tolerated. I think we need to find all the links of all the products and show this to c28 and express our feelings.
daniel@seekGodnow.org - 2/10/11 @ 2:58 PM
just search for 'catholic' at the top.
regarding when they still had them,
here is the link to my original post regarding this issue, dated "6 months ago"
http://www.c28.com/forum/topic.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=1024
however, i think c28 deleted it, because going to the link doesn't work anymore..
and here is when i brought it up again because they were still selling them, dated September 10th:
http://www.c28.com/forum/topic.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=1117
thankfully, that link does work
daniel@seekGodnow.org - 2/12/11 @ 7:06 PM
doesn't seem to concern many here
PutHisBloodOnIt - 2/12/11 @ 8:35 PM
I have not had the chance to find all the catholic stuff yet. But I wonder why c28 would sell pro catholic material when we asked they remove it before in which they did but now put it back up. Is it possible that other people contacted c28 to sell pro catholic stuff? And is it all about sales or what? Maybe Ivan has some inside info.
sonofGod - 2/13/11 @ 4:43 PM
Well first of all I would like to defend that catholicism is not of the devil, as a catholic, i am a Catholic-Christian, it is the original branch of Christianity, and it holds all Christian values. I also see it as that this website is non-denominational, also known as a christian, but not catholic, or protestant, etc. they support all Christians no matter what "branch" or denomination. Hope this helps, God bless! :)
PutHisBloodOnIt - 2/13/11 @ 5:10 PM
Well I would argue most catholic churches do teach some things that do not line up biblically. And if c28 was selling a product that taught or encouraged a certain denomination that taught things that did not line up biblically I have to go against it. I feel that in these times with so much watered down gospel and new aged churches we ought to be as strict as ever when it comes to things like this.
sonofGod - 2/13/11 @ 5:24 PM
I hear your argument, and cannot disagree that there are many corrupt churches, but that is getting into stereotypes and whatnot. All my teachings are backed biblically and do always line up. Catholic is not watered down in any sense, and is as strict as it gets, it is based upon the bible, and only the bible. So there being products based There may be certain churches that teach not so biblical stuff, but that makes them false Catholics. Respectfully disagreeing of course I hope not for any blasphemy here or things of the sort. Thank you for your response though!
daniel@seekGodnow.org - 2/13/11 @ 6:03 PM
hey sonofGod, i don't like debates but i'd like to hear your response to some things i've heard about the catholic church. could we start a new thread to do questions/answers? no debate though, no ad hominem
PutHisBloodOnIt - 2/13/11 @ 6:22 PM
Yeah maybe a new thread should be started so some things can be addressed like Daniel said before. I would like c28 to see this thread and once again address this problem like before.
Catholic - 12/6/11 @ 2:18 PM
Maybe as Catholic Christians, some people who want C28's message feel like we can't support a company that won't support Christ's one true church. Just because your personal interpretation of the bible is at odds with catholicism does not mean the bible itself is at odds with catholicism.
Catholicism is not anti catholic, rather it was the first form of Christianity. and it's the only branch of Christianity that keeps with the teachings of Christ ever since he built the church (not holy book club, "church") when he was here.
again, just because your personal interpretation of the scripture is at odds with Catholic doctrine does not mean Catholicism is anti-scriptural. nor does it mean Catholics aren't christians. How could any group who proclaims Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior be "of the devil"?
it just doesn't make sense.
I would love the chance to defend the Catholic Church from these allegations of being "of the devil" and "anti-christian" because the Catholic church is not based on the bible (because it predates the bible), but it does NOT contradict the bible in any way. Any Catholic Doctrine can be defended with scripture. ANY. and any scripture that seems to contradict Catholicism can be shown why it doesn't. but most people who make these accusations are to afraid to hear that they're wrong.
PutHisBloodOnIt - 12/6/11 @ 2:39 PM
How would you defend the role of the pope and the popes purpose, in relation to the bible.
Jordan Dean - 12/6/11 @ 5:08 PM
@Catholic - I am not supporting the statements that the Catholic church is "of the devil" or "anti-christian" but I do see that it is very misguided. I'd love to see your reply to my problems with Catholicism in the other thread. The Bible is not open to private interpretation therefore I follow it by the letter and do not acknowledge any denomination except Christian (follower of Christ).
John - 12/6/11 @ 7:23 PM
I know plenty of Catholics who don't worship saints and just worship God and Jesus so i'm confused about all this catholic hate. Hate might be the wrong word but i can't think of another.
Jordan Dean - 12/6/11 @ 8:05 PM
@John - hate is indeed the wrong word. and if someone doesn't pray to saints or follow the pope, they are not truly Catholic.
Needy Servant - 12/6/11 @ 10:11 PM
@ actholic - I have sat down with clergymen of the catholic faith and let them explain why they believe ( the catholic church) needs extra-biblical material as a source of truth. Which is a lie.
Also many of the catholic beliefs directly oppose the Bible, such as purgatory and infant baptism unto salvation. They believe that a priest has the power to forgive sins, which he absolutely does not.
Just to name o few off the top of my head.
As for the material here and the rare exception to catholicism - i don't know the material and what it contains but some catholics ( though rare) are actually saved and are believing the truth. Some continue to attend catholic church and call themselves catholic because they were raised in that church and are there to be lights and salts according to God's purposes.
KM - 7/29/12 @ 8:58 PM
@needy servant - I am also catholic and would like to clarify that purgatory and infant baptism are biblically supported. I will use the wise words of Mark Hart (the Bible Geek) to explain it. You can find explanations to this and 99 other beliefs of the Catholic Church in his book 100 Things Every Catholic Teen Should Know.
I will begin with purgatory...It is correct that the word purgatory is never mentioned in scripture. At the same time, the term trinity is not mentioned in scripture, either. In fact, if you want to get technical, "Bible" isn't even biblical. It only appears on the cover and cover pages and not in the actual text.
The verb "purge" (from which we derive the term purgatory) comes from a latin term meaning "to purify". Literally, purgatory is a state of cleansing where our souls are purified from sin through intense measures. Revelations 21:27 clearly teaches that "nothing unclean will enter Heaven. " Likewise in 1Corinthians 3:15 St. Paul states that "if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire." The burning below cannot refer to Hell because in Hell people are not saved.
Jesus Himself teaches us that some sins can be forgiven in the "next world", as we hear in Matthew 12:32. This "middle state" is described elsewhere in scripture too (1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:6). St. Paul prayed for the dead too. Just read 2 Timothy 1:16-18.
God is perfect holiness (Isaiah 6:3). We are called to be perfectly holy (Matthew 5:48 and 1 Peter 1:15-16). Without perfect holiness we cannot see God in Heaven (Hebrews 12:14). Purgatory is not meant for our pain, but for our cleansing and sanctification (Hebrews 12:11). All discipline and affliction leads us closer to God, if we let it (Romans 5:3-5 and James 1:2).
Yes, Christ DID accomplish all our our salvation by dying on the Cross, but the Scriptures teach and remind us that it is through sanctification that we are made holy over time, and throughout other ways that can involve and include suffering. Purgatory is just the final stage of sanctification for any of us in need of purification prior to entering the perfect and eternal banquet of Heaven.
Now, as for Infant Baptism, let me start with an explanation of what Baptism is for Catholics so that you can understand why we Baptize infants.
Again, as Mark Hart brilliantly put it, "The Earth is comprised mainly of water. Your body is comprised mainly of water...We need water to live. Baptism is about a lot more than water.
Some people have the mistaken idea that the waters of Baptism are just about "washing away" the stain of original sin. Yes, they do that, but it is about so much more than that. Water is a key element to baptism, but there are several other symbols like the candle (light), the oil, the white garment, etc.
Baptism doesn't just erase sin; it welcomes you into the family. Through baptism you are not "cleaned off" you are recreated. IN the Sacrament of Baptism we are made new; God doesn't just forgive you, God the Father ADOPTS you. Water symbolizes the death to old life and the rising in new life. The oil signifies our anointing and our reception of the Holy Spirit. The candle reminds us to be a light to others (John 8:12) and to let Christ's light shine through us (Matthew 5:14-16). The white garment signifies our purity and sinlessness as we "put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27)
Baptism is one of the Sacraments of Initiation. We baptize babies to offer them the free gift of God's grace as early as possible. "
I hope this clarifies at least a little bit what those of us Catholic-Christians truly believe. We are ALL saved by Christ's death on the cross. But only a few choose to accept His invitation to eternal salvation, by picking up their crosses and following Him down that path that is narrow and difficult.
Gabriella - 8/1/12 @ 10:03 AM
I think this's a question to think about it: where does it begins with and where does it ends with? if c28 is selling catholic stuff (which I don't support personally because I know catholic people and I feel bad for them because I feel it's not the right belief) it might be a little step to sell also for example Jehovas witnesses stuff. maybe even other religious stuff. I don't know. I only don't think this is the right way c28 should come up with. why not just christian?
KM - 8/1/12 @ 12:42 PM
I agree. C28 needs to sell Christian clothing. Keeping in mind that the Catholic Church is the original Christian Church.